Possession is 0% of the law
Thursday, December 9th, 2004
Categorized as: Inheriting and bequeathing US Savings Bonds • Lost or stolen US Savings Bonds • Savings Bond registration changes
My great uncle had two $1,000 series E savings bonds. In July 1978 he gave me his WW II footlocker with its contents. He died in 1979 with no wife or children. His only relative was my grandmother. I found the bonds by accident three months ago in the footlocker. When I filled out the forms to cash them, the Treasury said I couldn’t have the money and instead gave it (almost $15,000!) to my father and his brothers and sisters. Whatever happened to possession is 9/10’s of the law?
Tom’s response
Possession is 9/10s of the law isn’t actually the law, particularly when it comes to US Savings Bonds.
In fact, for savings bonds, possession is meaningless. All that counts is the name on the bond. Since the person named on these bonds had died, his heirs become the owners.
(Average rating: 3.85 stars)
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Tom Adams
my fiance had her mother “hold” her bonds, and now that they don’t talk her mother will not give them back. her mother is the POD on the bonds “bennificary basically” and thats all, but the tres dept says that the mother must sign the replacement form. How can she get arround this, as her mother will not do this. help please…
Matt - there’s no getting around it. My recommendation would be patience, but if you can’t handle that then you have a choice between getting an appointment with a lawyer or a family counselor.
Tom Adams
Maybe I need another cup of coffee. Are you saying that if I have designated a POD beneficiary on an I-bond, that I must get that person’s signature on the bond replacement form? What if the POD beneficiary is deceased? What if s/he has moved, cannot be located and we have lost all contact?
Nik - The mother needs to sign the replacement form saying the bonds are lost because she’s the last one who had them, not because she’s the POD.
Since she still has them, she won’t sign.
Parents refusing to give their adult children Savings Bonds in the child’s name is common. This is a country in need of a lot of family therapy.
Tom Adams
i think i mis-stated. the tres dept was never told that the mother had the bonds. They said that reguardless of the location (lost, stolden, distroyed)the pod must sign.
Matt - I’m sorry I misunderstood your question. I checked the lost bond form PD F 1048, and sure enough, the instructions say:
So PODs do have to sign the form for claiming lost bonds.
In addition, even if she wasn’t named on the bonds, she would need to submit a statement if she had them last. From the form’s instructions:
Tom Adams
Scenario: 3 teens who were minors when their Gma died dont find out from the PR who is also their father that they inherited US savings bonds. 2 years go by when he slips. Subsequent litigation ends in 2 are now adults and must hire an attorney to go after $2000 in savings bonds. The kids are told that the probate court does not have jurisdiction to order the PR to give them their POD inheritance. So we go to the tresury who tells us that they will NOT reissue the bonds because they are not lost or stolen, their dad has them. And, the tresury tells us we will have to sue him. He did not and does not have custody. So, you may THINK a POD designation means something but as far as the treasury is concerned it means nothing that a little old lady tried to leave saving bonds to the kids and they will not honor this. If you do this GIVE THE BONDS TO THE BENEFICIARY or invest in something else!
Maddy - on the other hand, their father can’t cash the bonds (or if he does, you can nail him for fraud). So the money is there, gathering interest. Not a perfect situation, but better than it could be.
Tom Adams
I have purchased bonds for my children for 35 years and the early bonds had to be listed in my name with them as beneficiary. Is there any way I can give them to my children without my getting the tax hit?
My late father had bonds with his children as the beneficicay’s. My mother has refused to show us or give us the bonds. Many are over 30 years old. Her name is not on the bonds at all. My father & his childs name were the only ones named on the bonds. With only his social security number & name, what can I do?
thanks!
Harold - 35-year-old bonds are no longer earning interest. We call them stinkers around here. Cash them in, pay the taxes, reinvest in new bonds with your children as co-owners, and live another 30 years. The only way to transfer the tax on the bonds you own now to your children is to die. Not recommended.
Jane - This is what Probate Courts are for. Was your father’s estate settled properly? You need to talk to a lawyer.
Tom Adams
I’m getting divorced, is there anyway to take my ex husbands name off the savings bonds I have? He’s not a co-owner, they were just mailed to him and it says POD his name.
Desirae - the information you’re looking for is here.
Tom Adams
I won a savings bond back in high school (1991). My dad tried to cash it in back in (1994), however they wouldn’t let him cash it because it had my name on it. Now no one will cash it in for me because he endorsed it, thinking he could cash it. What do I do?
Hi Rachel - Your bank should cash it for you. If they refuse, ask them what you need to do. Be polite but persistent. It might help to call rather than going in person.
Tom Adams
I am in possession of 4 $50.00 savings bonds that were given to me for rent/living expenses by one of my children’s friends. From what I’ve read here I obviously can’t cash them, so what do I do with them?
Kathleen - you need to get the owner to cash them and give you the money.
Tom Adams
Hi,
I recently purchased a delinquent storage locker and everything inside….inside I found several E savings bonds..am I able to cash these in since I purchased the contents of the locker? Can you give me any information on this? Thanks so much
Chris - This article already tells you the answer to your question. No, you cannot cash the bonds. Possession of the bonds is meaningless. If you can find the owners, they might pay you a finders fee, but it’s their option.
Tom Adams
After reading these edifying and occasionally appalling messages, I can now appreciate the merit of Treasury Direct electronic registration.